Seven feet tall, long silver hair, green cat eyes, long black coat. Can't miss him if you see him, but he hates everyone, so you might not.
[Everyone but Cloud, apparently, but he's just not going to think about that.]
...not sure. He hates all of humanity and tried to wipe us off the Planet back home, but so far he hasn't tried it here. Dunno if he'd see you guys any different than other humans or SOLDIERs.
... Wasn't he at my party? I don't know. I was super wasted.
(Might have been someone else.)
Mhm. Well. We're not human to our world, humanity hates us and wipes us off, but that's — I guess hard to equate to other places, I guess. So, I mean. I'll keep an eye out. If he comes near me or the others with shitty intent, I can guarantee you he won't bother you or me again.
(Or, well, she'll die trying, it's a pattern.)
So, that's your trauma? This genocidal asshole? What is he?
[Until he coerced Cloud into leaving the party with him, but hey.
He scowls.]
People hate you just for, what, having powers? Assholes.
[His frown turns both concerned and stern, as he looks her directly in the eye for the first time since he arrived.]
If he comes near anybody with shitty intent, call me. I can deal with him without collateral damage. If he's coming after you, it'll be because of me, one way or another.
[His tone is matter-of-fact, not guilty or morose. It's a practical consideration - he doesn't want Sephiroth fighting anyone where he could destroy what they've worked for, and he knows by now there's nothing else Sephiroth wants here that would drive him to violence.]
He's just an enhanced human, like me, but he doesn't see it that way. A scumbag scientist experimented on him with alien DNA, so he sees himself as a monster and he blames all of humanity for it.
Not for powers themselves. There are plenty of powerful people who don't get fucked over for living. It's because anyone could be one, just waiting for their X-Gene to activate, and well, they think we're freaks and threats. I'm human-passing. Some of us are not, so that's even worse. It's shitty.
(But she shrugs. It's hard to explain that bit to most people who don't come from the same Earth as she does. Different fears, different types of people. All he has to understand is that their existence is horrible, that's good enough.)
Eh. Maybe I'll call you. Mutant problems, mutant solutions, you know? If he wants to fuck us over, we're all fucking him over, and it's not pretty either way.
Oh. Oh! Okay. That'll do it. You know, obviously, everyone deals with stuff differently, but seriously, gotta look into his heart there to find the silver lining and move the fuck on. You know, I'm a weapon myself! Not a fun backstory. I'm not out here trying to commit atrocities.
But if anyone could be one, doesn't that prove there's pretty much no difference? Who cares if you look human or not? [A pause.] Anybody in Etraya ever say anything like that?
[Cloud shakes his head, the sternness remaining.]
Sephiroth is my responsibility. Do what you gotta to keep your people safe, fuck him up by all means, just...call me, too. Okay?
[He nods thoughtfully.]
Mm. He used to be a hero. Best of the best. Till he found out they lied to him all his life.
Let me correct myself. You don't know who is and isn't one. Their gene might not be activated. They might look like a pretty blonde. They might sneeze one day and create an earthquake. So, the humans lose it. We're not people, we're threats. Abominations or whatever.
And, no, not in Etraya — I mean, there are people who are very anti-telepath, but it's not because of mutations or anything. It's the telepathy that bothers them.
(Which, fine. Paranoid as fuck, but fine.)
Okay. Not like you're ever far away from me.
And, uh. So, he got super mad? That's his backstory? Pfft. Look, not saying it doesn't suck, but at some point, either he gets over it, or he implodes, no?
But that's not your fault. You can't help your own genetics.
[No more than Sephiroth can. But Shinra managed to avoid any reactions like that by touting him as a supersoldier, a hero keeping people safe, and all the SOLDIERs who followed made the choice to be enhanced. Not that they ended up much better in the end, either, considering the degradation. Which Shinra knew about and never mentioned. Their usual MO.
Cloud shrugs a little.]
Bothers me, too. But you don't.
[She's more than just her abilities.]
Thanks.
More or less, yeah. Lets hatred and rage drive him. I took him down once already, but he came back even more powerful, so...don't think he'll stop until he gets what he wants or I kill him for good.
We can't, no, but that's the hell we live in. There are mutants from another worlds here, kinda like mine, but different? The ones from my world, we're all fucked up in the head, from that or the consequences of it.
(She's actually the one who's least affected. She's been dead, and she's only lost her home from this just once. The others? Not so lucky.)
Hah! Interesting, considering I just told you how I think. Not concerned?
(She's just poking. It's interesting to hear what he thinks, even if she will most likely not agree with his take.)
Well, no killing anyone for good here, so you're of luck, and he's out of luck, because fuck him, that's why. I might be able to help that part if it comes to it. I'm great at, uh, surgery.
(Moving those pieces around, making different connections, rewiring.)
Is he actively giving you trouble, or just biding his time?
Sure seems like most of us here come from some kinda hell. Guess that's what happens when all our worlds are in line for the chopping block.
[Cloud shrugs.]
Nope. Because you just told me how you think. Like you said - it'd be pretty dumb to tell me all that if you planned to use it against me. Right?
[His brow furrows. 'Surgery' - yeah, he gets what she means. The suggestion feels wrong to him, but he won't bother bringing that up when it's just a remote possibility.]
Actively back home. Here, kind of a stalemate for now. Can't get what he wants here, but he ain't above fucking with me just for kicks.
[And yet, apart from the very first day Sephiroth was here, he keeps insisting all he wants is for Cloud to spend time with him. It's gotta be bullshit, but so far, nothing's disproved it.
Yeah. Not quite happy about that, either. I've cursed out this place so much for not having a mastermind I can tap into.
(And, well, most of the population are bots. Not enough brains. It's like an empty classroom in here for her.)
Exactly. Besides, I'm, uh, trying not to be on my bullshit. Change or whatever. I can't change what I notice, but I can stop myself from poking it with a stick for my own benefit.
(There's a shrug, like she hasn't just said the whole thing she's been working hard at in Etraya since she got here.)
Oh. He's a bitch. Okay, got it. Mhm. Look, we gotta work on your trauma. I'll literally explain to you how it works. You'll deal with him much better when it's time.
[Cloud studies her for a moment at that talk about change, head tilting slightly. Then he nods once with an air of approval.]
Can't be easy, going against your instincts. So, as your student, I appreciate it.
[He makes an uncomfortable face when she talks about working on his trauma. That sounds suspiciously like talking about things he really doesn't want to talk about - or, in some cases, can't. But he nods warily.]
Nope. Telepathy is... I talk and operate brains. If I were to explain everything I have done, it's all some neurobiology stuff that gets really boring if that's not your thing. I can't do shit to a non-existent one.
(Parts of the brain, neural connections, nerves, hormone productions, yadda, yadda.)
I mean, gotta be working, if you came to me in the first place.
(Considering the skittish nature he has, if she had been on her behavior, she doubts he'd come.)
Yeah, shitty, I know. Suck it up, though. Nothing worthwhile is easy or painless.
If they do have a brain I can understand in the first place. Ugh. This shit rattles me.
(Helplessness, impossibility. She's not so sure Echo is being honest.)
Be patient with yourself, for starters. It's not an easy process and you'll be mad a lot. At me, at you, at him, at the world, and whoever the fuck you'll end up blaming. Normal. Just be patient and don't let bad days get to you, and that already works wonders.
[Being patient with himself and not letting bad days get to him are among the few things Cloud is terrible at, so he sees right away why she said this would suck. Great.]
[He's not entirely certain about that, but there's a reason 'I'm fine' is one of the most common things he says to people...]
So, you gonna poke around in my head for stuff about Sephiroth?
[It occurs to him that if Sophie's digging around in his mind, she's probably going to find...whatever it is that's going on with him. Weird memory glitches, the feeling that he isn't wholly himself, all that stuff. He doesn't want her to, but on the other hand, maybe she could actually tell him what's happening and help him fix it. Hmm.]
I mean, I can. I was hoping to traumatize you gradually so you don't get too spooked and have time to learn how to unfuck your own brain in the process, but sure, we can go through your life's worst moments. I'm not doing anything.
(Meaning: up to him. It sounds like a lot, and if he's not ready to let her in, she thinks it's going to worsen it.)
Tell me how you met this asshole. Why is he so keen on ruining your fucking life?
(Talking, yes. So he has some leeway, and she starts noticing what he doesn't want to talk about so she can poke it with a stick later. She'll look into his mind just a little bit, for vibes and feelings, without going fully in with the thought process.)
[Okay, that's not the worst tale to tell. He's told it once already. This is probably fine.]
Right. Well, he and I were both in the SOLDIER program together back home. Supersoldiers enhanced with the Planet's life energy, basically. He wasn't an asshole, then - he was a hero.
[The feelings are already strong, despite the detached way he's telling the story. Beneath his stoic exterior, there's a potent undercurrent of betrayal and rage, years-old shock and horror; the feeling that Sephiroth wasn't just a hero, but Cloud's hero.]
We were on a mission together in my hometown when he found out about the experiments. He was conceived and born as a science project, genetically altered with the DNA of a psychic alien the lab dug up from an ancient crater and designed to be the strongest warrior on the Planet. He spent a week holed up in a library reading all the reports and findings from the project, and then he burnt down the whole village, killed...everybody.
[Outwardly, he's still mostly calm, maybe a bit melancholy. The feelings he's pushing down are a tumult of grief and fear and helplessness, with a side of self-loathing for not being able to stop it from happening.]
So I killed him. And then five years later, he came back, somehow. He's hell-bent on summoning a meteor to smash into the Planet and becoming some kind of multiversal god, and...I guess he's focused on me because I'm the only one who's ever beaten him. Revenge for killing him.
[There's definitely more to it than that, though, according to the vibes Sophie's getting from him. Dread and horror, fear of himself and of Sephiroth, confusion, shame, guilt...
...and underneath all of that, there's something else, vague and mostly subconscious. Some kind of connection, maybe, or an inevitable pull, and the sense that there's a lot more in Cloud's head than he consciously knows about, secrets hidden in dark parts of his mind he can't currently access.]
(She's keeping a neutral expression as she listens, nails tapping on the couch cushion as she pays attention to both words and feelings.)
Were you in there by choice or were you just as unfortunate as he was? And what was your purpose? I mean, no one is out there making super soldiers just because they're bored. There's more interesting, nefarious shit to do if that's the case. So, what's up with that?
(Oh, yikes, it's a lot to weed through up in that nogging. Both his and Sephiroth's, if she decides to take that trip. Undecided yet. Maybe, if she finds him a danger too real for Cloud to take on, or if he's life is in jeopardy. She took him under her wing now, and that means she fights for him, too. To be seen what's needed.)
Mhm, nope. So, you feel things, and then at a certain point, they bounce back. There's a wall in there, which either was put in there on purpose or you made it yourself. If it's the latter, well. If I touch that wall, and you're not ready to deal with it, you'll have a psychotic breakdown, and that's very annoying to deal with.
(Worrying. Dangerous. Not annoying. She'd care for him in a heartbeat.)
[There's a brief moment right as he's about to answer her questions about SOLDIER where he hesitates, and Sophie picks up what feels almost like glitchy static at the edges of Cloud's mind. Then it fades and he goes on like nothing happened.]
By choice. I joined up because when I was younger, the propaganda machine convinced everybody that the war we were waging on a nearby country was just and necessary, and Sephiroth was a great war hero for clinching our victory. But by the time I made it in, the war was over and we were just...an elite fighting force at Shinra's beck and call to take down anyone or anything that challenged them.
[His eyes widen when she explains what she's found in his head, accompanied by a profound and desperate dread.]
A wall? What--
[But if he's honest with himself, it's not as surprising to hear as it could be. All the missing memories and lost time, the weird headaches, the things he somehow knows that he shouldn't, stuff that doesn't add up...this might explain everything. But if Sophie's right, breaking down that wall could be a disaster.
But he's sick of living in the dark with nothing but the feeling that something is very, very wrong inside his head.
He lets out a breath, frowning.]
Everything I've said so far is nothing I haven't told my friends back home. But...there's more, and I think that wall you're talking about is the crux of it. Something's been off about my memories, ever since...
[He tries to think back to when it started, but that glitchy static returns, and this time it sends pain shooting through his head. He flinches, squeezing his eyes shut and pressing one palm against his temple, though it doesn't help. Flashes of half-remembered events flicker through his mind in quick succession - stumbling into a train station, talking to Tifa, watching a tall silhouette walk away into the bright sun--and then it's all gone again. The pain fades, and Cloud catches his breath for a second.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 03:23 am (UTC)[The resigned exasperation that crosses his face might be for her or for himself, or - most likely - both.]
...Sephiroth. The adult one, not the kid.
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 07:20 pm (UTC)Also, if he's one of the weirdos who would get all 'wow, mutants, hate those guys and would like to either use them or kill them', you gotta tell me.
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 07:50 pm (UTC)[Everyone but Cloud, apparently, but he's just not going to think about that.]
...not sure. He hates all of humanity and tried to wipe us off the Planet back home, but so far he hasn't tried it here. Dunno if he'd see you guys any different than other humans or SOLDIERs.
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 07:53 pm (UTC)(Might have been someone else.)
Mhm. Well. We're not human to our world, humanity hates us and wipes us off, but that's — I guess hard to equate to other places, I guess. So, I mean. I'll keep an eye out. If he comes near me or the others with shitty intent, I can guarantee you he won't bother you or me again.
(Or, well, she'll die trying, it's a pattern.)
So, that's your trauma? This genocidal asshole? What is he?
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 09:41 pm (UTC)[Until he coerced Cloud into leaving the party with him, but hey.
He scowls.]
People hate you just for, what, having powers? Assholes.
[His frown turns both concerned and stern, as he looks her directly in the eye for the first time since he arrived.]
If he comes near anybody with shitty intent, call me. I can deal with him without collateral damage. If he's coming after you, it'll be because of me, one way or another.
[His tone is matter-of-fact, not guilty or morose. It's a practical consideration - he doesn't want Sephiroth fighting anyone where he could destroy what they've worked for, and he knows by now there's nothing else Sephiroth wants here that would drive him to violence.]
He's just an enhanced human, like me, but he doesn't see it that way. A scumbag scientist experimented on him with alien DNA, so he sees himself as a monster and he blames all of humanity for it.
cw fictional racism
Date: 2026-01-11 09:48 pm (UTC)(But she shrugs. It's hard to explain that bit to most people who don't come from the same Earth as she does. Different fears, different types of people. All he has to understand is that their existence is horrible, that's good enough.)
Eh. Maybe I'll call you. Mutant problems, mutant solutions, you know? If he wants to fuck us over, we're all fucking him over, and it's not pretty either way.
Oh. Oh! Okay. That'll do it. You know, obviously, everyone deals with stuff differently, but seriously, gotta look into his heart there to find the silver lining and move the fuck on. You know, I'm a weapon myself! Not a fun backstory. I'm not out here trying to commit atrocities.
Re: cw fictional racism
Date: 2026-01-11 11:10 pm (UTC)[Cloud shakes his head, the sternness remaining.]
Sephiroth is my responsibility. Do what you gotta to keep your people safe, fuck him up by all means, just...call me, too. Okay?
[He nods thoughtfully.]
Mm. He used to be a hero. Best of the best. Till he found out they lied to him all his life.
i wanted more sad
Date: 2026-01-11 11:15 pm (UTC)And, no, not in Etraya — I mean, there are people who are very anti-telepath, but it's not because of mutations or anything. It's the telepathy that bothers them.
(Which, fine. Paranoid as fuck, but fine.)
Okay. Not like you're ever far away from me.
And, uh. So, he got super mad? That's his backstory? Pfft. Look, not saying it doesn't suck, but at some point, either he gets over it, or he implodes, no?
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 11:34 pm (UTC)[No more than Sephiroth can. But Shinra managed to avoid any reactions like that by touting him as a supersoldier, a hero keeping people safe, and all the SOLDIERs who followed made the choice to be enhanced. Not that they ended up much better in the end, either, considering the degradation. Which Shinra knew about and never mentioned. Their usual MO.
Cloud shrugs a little.]
Bothers me, too. But you don't.
[She's more than just her abilities.]
Thanks.
More or less, yeah. Lets hatred and rage drive him. I took him down once already, but he came back even more powerful, so...don't think he'll stop until he gets what he wants or I kill him for good.
[Somehow.]
no subject
Date: 2026-01-11 11:41 pm (UTC)(She's actually the one who's least affected. She's been dead, and she's only lost her home from this just once. The others? Not so lucky.)
Hah! Interesting, considering I just told you how I think. Not concerned?
(She's just poking. It's interesting to hear what he thinks, even if she will most likely not agree with his take.)
Well, no killing anyone for good here, so you're of luck, and he's out of luck, because fuck him, that's why. I might be able to help that part if it comes to it. I'm great at, uh, surgery.
(Moving those pieces around, making different connections, rewiring.)
Is he actively giving you trouble, or just biding his time?
no subject
Date: 2026-01-12 12:46 am (UTC)[Cloud shrugs.]
Nope. Because you just told me how you think. Like you said - it'd be pretty dumb to tell me all that if you planned to use it against me. Right?
[His brow furrows. 'Surgery' - yeah, he gets what she means. The suggestion feels wrong to him, but he won't bother bringing that up when it's just a remote possibility.]
Actively back home. Here, kind of a stalemate for now. Can't get what he wants here, but he ain't above fucking with me just for kicks.
[And yet, apart from the very first day Sephiroth was here, he keeps insisting all he wants is for Cloud to spend time with him. It's gotta be bullshit, but so far, nothing's disproved it.
So far.]
no subject
Date: 2026-01-12 08:13 am (UTC)(And, well, most of the population are bots. Not enough brains. It's like an empty classroom in here for her.)
Exactly. Besides, I'm, uh, trying not to be on my bullshit. Change or whatever. I can't change what I notice, but I can stop myself from poking it with a stick for my own benefit.
(There's a shrug, like she hasn't just said the whole thing she's been working hard at in Etraya since she got here.)
Oh. He's a bitch. Okay, got it. Mhm. Look, we gotta work on your trauma. I'll literally explain to you how it works. You'll deal with him much better when it's time.
no subject
Date: 2026-01-12 08:33 am (UTC)[Cloud studies her for a moment at that talk about change, head tilting slightly. Then he nods once with an air of approval.]
Can't be easy, going against your instincts. So, as your student, I appreciate it.
[He makes an uncomfortable face when she talks about working on his trauma. That sounds suspiciously like talking about things he really doesn't want to talk about - or, in some cases, can't. But he nods warily.]
Okay...
no subject
Date: 2026-01-12 09:11 am (UTC)(Parts of the brain, neural connections, nerves, hormone productions, yadda, yadda.)
I mean, gotta be working, if you came to me in the first place.
(Considering the skittish nature he has, if she had been on her behavior, she doubts he'd come.)
Yeah, shitty, I know. Suck it up, though. Nothing worthwhile is easy or painless.
no subject
Date: 2026-01-12 09:19 am (UTC)[If Echo was really entirely on the up-and-up, you'd think they'd want to prove it.]
Yup.
[Which is his way of saying he does, in fact, think she's succeeding at this difficult task.
He sighs.]
Yeah, yeah. So...what do I have to do?
no subject
Date: 2026-01-12 09:22 am (UTC)(Helplessness, impossibility. She's not so sure Echo is being honest.)
Be patient with yourself, for starters. It's not an easy process and you'll be mad a lot. At me, at you, at him, at the world, and whoever the fuck you'll end up blaming. Normal. Just be patient and don't let bad days get to you, and that already works wonders.
no subject
Date: 2026-01-28 11:37 am (UTC)...sure, patience. Okay. What else?
no subject
Date: 2026-01-28 02:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2026-01-29 04:02 am (UTC)[He's not entirely certain about that, but there's a reason 'I'm fine' is one of the most common things he says to people...]
So, you gonna poke around in my head for stuff about Sephiroth?
[It occurs to him that if Sophie's digging around in his mind, she's probably going to find...whatever it is that's going on with him. Weird memory glitches, the feeling that he isn't wholly himself, all that stuff. He doesn't want her to, but on the other hand, maybe she could actually tell him what's happening and help him fix it. Hmm.]
no subject
Date: 2026-01-30 01:42 am (UTC)(Meaning: up to him. It sounds like a lot, and if he's not ready to let her in, she thinks it's going to worsen it.)
no subject
Date: 2026-01-30 08:08 am (UTC)[Except in the sense that if she's not poking around in his head, it means she's expecting him to talk about this stuff, probably.]
So where do we start?
no subject
Date: 2026-01-30 11:01 am (UTC)(Talking, yes. So he has some leeway, and she starts noticing what he doesn't want to talk about so she can poke it with a stick later. She'll look into his mind just a little bit, for vibes and feelings, without going fully in with the thought process.)
no subject
Date: 2026-01-31 08:58 am (UTC)Right. Well, he and I were both in the SOLDIER program together back home. Supersoldiers enhanced with the Planet's life energy, basically. He wasn't an asshole, then - he was a hero.
[The feelings are already strong, despite the detached way he's telling the story. Beneath his stoic exterior, there's a potent undercurrent of betrayal and rage, years-old shock and horror; the feeling that Sephiroth wasn't just a hero, but Cloud's hero.]
We were on a mission together in my hometown when he found out about the experiments. He was conceived and born as a science project, genetically altered with the DNA of a psychic alien the lab dug up from an ancient crater and designed to be the strongest warrior on the Planet. He spent a week holed up in a library reading all the reports and findings from the project, and then he burnt down the whole village, killed...everybody.
[Outwardly, he's still mostly calm, maybe a bit melancholy. The feelings he's pushing down are a tumult of grief and fear and helplessness, with a side of self-loathing for not being able to stop it from happening.]
So I killed him. And then five years later, he came back, somehow. He's hell-bent on summoning a meteor to smash into the Planet and becoming some kind of multiversal god, and...I guess he's focused on me because I'm the only one who's ever beaten him. Revenge for killing him.
[There's definitely more to it than that, though, according to the vibes Sophie's getting from him. Dread and horror, fear of himself and of Sephiroth, confusion, shame, guilt...
...and underneath all of that, there's something else, vague and mostly subconscious. Some kind of connection, maybe, or an inevitable pull, and the sense that there's a lot more in Cloud's head than he consciously knows about, secrets hidden in dark parts of his mind he can't currently access.]
im so canonblind this is so fun for me lmao
Date: 2026-02-01 03:15 am (UTC)Were you in there by choice or were you just as unfortunate as he was? And what was your purpose? I mean, no one is out there making super soldiers just because they're bored. There's more interesting, nefarious shit to do if that's the case. So, what's up with that?
(Oh, yikes, it's a lot to weed through up in that nogging. Both his and Sephiroth's, if she decides to take that trip. Undecided yet. Maybe, if she finds him a danger too real for Cloud to take on, or if he's life is in jeopardy. She took him under her wing now, and that means she fights for him, too. To be seen what's needed.)
Mhm, nope. So, you feel things, and then at a certain point, they bounce back. There's a wall in there, which either was put in there on purpose or you made it yourself. If it's the latter, well. If I touch that wall, and you're not ready to deal with it, you'll have a psychotic breakdown, and that's very annoying to deal with.
(Worrying. Dangerous. Not annoying. She'd care for him in a heartbeat.)
How do you feel about telling me all this?
omg welcome to the FFVII experience XD
Date: 2026-02-01 07:23 am (UTC)By choice. I joined up because when I was younger, the propaganda machine convinced everybody that the war we were waging on a nearby country was just and necessary, and Sephiroth was a great war hero for clinching our victory. But by the time I made it in, the war was over and we were just...an elite fighting force at Shinra's beck and call to take down anyone or anything that challenged them.
[His eyes widen when she explains what she's found in his head, accompanied by a profound and desperate dread.]
A wall? What--
[But if he's honest with himself, it's not as surprising to hear as it could be. All the missing memories and lost time, the weird headaches, the things he somehow knows that he shouldn't, stuff that doesn't add up...this might explain everything. But if Sophie's right, breaking down that wall could be a disaster.
But he's sick of living in the dark with nothing but the feeling that something is very, very wrong inside his head.
He lets out a breath, frowning.]
Everything I've said so far is nothing I haven't told my friends back home. But...there's more, and I think that wall you're talking about is the crux of it. Something's been off about my memories, ever since...
[He tries to think back to when it started, but that glitchy static returns, and this time it sends pain shooting through his head. He flinches, squeezing his eyes shut and pressing one palm against his temple, though it doesn't help. Flashes of half-remembered events flicker through his mind in quick succession - stumbling into a train station, talking to Tifa, watching a tall silhouette walk away into the bright sun--and then it's all gone again. The pain fades, and Cloud catches his breath for a second.]
...I...I dunno. Not sure when it started.
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